Which Loo?

[Christina Johnson]

Whilst looking through some websites, I found this story which was published in the Sun, June 08

Just another sign that the UK is a long way behind other countries



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/expats/expats_news/article1307721.ece

[debs_n_soots]

It's a bit of a double edged thing though really.....

Bhuddist culture means that the populace are a lot more relaxed and tolerant of diversity....... however in Thailand TS have no legal recognition under the law. If you're identified as male at birth then that's it - no female documentation, legally you're a man.

To be honest I think we do pretty well in this country all things considered.

[Sally Ann Magnay]

In france many public loo's have no gender you use the one thats empty
Some dont even have a toilet pan to sit on. You just lift up your skirt and squat! If male aim for the hole.

I always use the ladies when at motorway services but dont want to get bogged down on this subject :eek:

Sally

[Jennifer D]

AS for which loo to use, when I am travelling on Motorways and out and about I generally use a disabled toilet. This I find does not raise any problems, and anyway I am registered disabled so entitled to do so
The only time I have used the disabled toilets has been at Tesco in Lowestoft - both loos by the cafe (which is a load cheaper than having breakfast at the Travelodge) are marked disabled. Oddly enough I feel far more self-concious using the disabled loos than I do using when I use the ladies :confused:

[debs_n_soots]

Hi Jennifer, I don't find that odd to be honest - after all it's appropriate is it not?

I found that over time I became far more comfortable using the ladies than the men's (before I went full time). A mixture of increasing comfort within myself and a fear of what men might make of me as my appearance drifted from the androgenous to the barely disguised female! I only use(d) disabled toilets where that was the only one available.

I don't believe in rubbing people up the wrong way for no good reason - or being 'right-on' - but I do believe that once full time, and certainly once on hormones, then one is entitled to use the ladies loo. To do otherwise somehow seems to be surrendering that one is not female - at least to the watching public - although I can understand that using the ladies can seem daunting/awkward at first.

[Christina Johnson]

Looks like the idea is catching on - 1st Thailand, now Manchester University.



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1752861.ece

[kim swanheart]

Just found this one! I'm a bus driver and the union got us radar keys for disabled loos.They're generally cleaner round Blackpool than the other loos,worth having a key as you'll soon get your money back.

[Sally Ann Magnay]

The Ladies loo's are the only place a ladie should go.
I made a mistake once and walked into the gents. I have never been so embaressed. :eek:

[noeleena]

hi... you have to remember we can only sit down or squat . he he cant help it now ......noeleena ...

[Petra Susan]

Hello all,

I'm probably going to get into trouble for reviving and old thread which nobody has posted to for ages, but this issue has currently just arose for me at my place of work, but was just looking for a similar experience to the one I have just had with my manager and found none, so just to regale you/bore you of my new situation.

I'm still essentially male looking when "drab" which is rare. I recently came out at work as being transgendered and the fact that I wanted to be female all the time. So gradually over the past 3 months since I told my manager and colleagues at work this, I have been gradually going to work more and more obviously female in appearance, jewellery, make-up clothes and now hair style since I had it re-modelled. So now I do look quite obviously female in dress and manner, before it was more covert.

So far I have had nothing but positive comments, even today I was still showing pictures of “Janine” around to some girls in other departments who know but haven’t seen me totally “made-up” and wearing a dress etc.. And all the comments where how different I looked and how good I looked, especially in certain dresses.

However I think the positive comments/remarks/attitude have just ended.
Well today at work, I was wearing what people would class as a "tight" t-shirt, and I was getting comments all day about my "tits" and how they were growing. It must totally be their imagination working overtime as I'm not currently taking any hormones or any other feminising medications. Although I have in the past but that was over 5 years ago and I was only taking them for around 2 months so very little chance of them having altered my body shape in that time, although it did mess up my blood chemistry a lot to the extent that it was highly unwise for me to continue with any further treatment, (but that is another story).

Anyhow this afternoon I was called into my Manager's office and we sat down. I thought He was going to tell me off about not clocking out on the right clock machine, as he caught me yesterday doing it. But no, he told me that some of the guys had come to him saying that they were uneasy with me using the gent’s toilets at work as I was now a “woman”. I was pretty shocked at that, and didn’t know exactly how to take it, just how do I take it? I said that I would get complaints from the women if I used theirs, which is probably true, and He agreed. The solution is that I now have to use the only disabled toilet that is in the factory. Fortunately it is in my own department area, but as we get moved from department to department on a frequent basis, I could end up at the opposite side of the factory, which could be some 400-500 yards away. I have been working there 16 years and I didn’t even know we had a disabled toilet, let alone that it was in my own department area, that is how well hidden it was.

So do I take it as a compliment that the guys take me as a fully fledged woman, or have I just been ostracized? I spent all afternoon trying to work out who where the guys who felt “uneasy”. I narrowed it down to about 4-5, I may have to ask some discrete questions tomorrow.

Janine

[Lynda Collins]

Confusing as I don't know what you really want.....

You say you are not on hormones or transitioning and yet you are presenting as female at work and yet..
You are told you are upsetting the guys because you are using the mensroom, yet you do not mention how the women feel if you were to use their loo.
Most would say you are presenting as female so therefore would feel better using the ladies loo.

Can I ask where you see yourself?.......... [as we do not have an introduction post so have no idea what you are looking for or expect or what you are about]
This could be a hint about doing an intro post............

[Petra Susan]

Ok.

Not really after anything, was just posting my recent experience within the topic title, that is all. The only question was "So do I take it as a compliment that the guys take me as a fully fledged woman, or have I just been ostracized?" Pretty much rhetorical, as none of you know the people involved.

With regards to hormones and transitioning.

I can't take hormones because in the past they screwed up all my blood chemistry, when I tried to over 5 years ago, not self medding or anything, the whole proper medical supervision, I went all through the proper NHS procedure to get on them and pysch diagnosis and everything. I was advised against continuing to take them off my medical supervisor, which I heeded. pretty certain I mention that.

Never metioned that I was or wasn't tranistioning in the post and it isn't an issue whether I am or not. as far as I'm concerned I pretty much have now, as I spend 99% of my time female.

I agree with you about using the ladies and I would under most circumstances. I haven't done a formal poll of the entire female staff, there are over 500 of them so would be difficult. Some wouldn't have a problem, but I know for a fact that I would have a couple of complaint's especially from a certain member of staff who was pretty vocal when I first came out and made some pretty unpleasant remarks about me, so was pretty pointless to pursue that, as it only needs 1 complaint. Should have mentioned in the first post. (my bad)

Like I said I was pretty shocked as I thought most of the guys would be pretty ok with it, after all I'd been happily doing it for the past 3 months, whilst sorting out my fully female image, to present. I told my manager when I first came out that I would gradually change my appearance over the next six months, as I didn't want to do it overnight and give too much of a shock to my fellow work mates.

I see myself as a woman trapped in a male body, but with the inability to escape/change it through further medical intervention, due to other medical problems, so am pretty much stuck in the limbo that I'm in at the moment. I am trying to go further and get recognized as a female, but it is as you are probably aware a slow process. Once I do get recognized as female, then I can happily use the ladies and not a thing anyone can do about it.

I already know that there is no law against using a ladies toilets, even as a man. and vice versa, it's left to the discretion of the toilet's owner

Not really looking for anything specific, just a place to pass on my experiences and get other peoples. After all that is what a forum is good for isn't it? I did a little welcome post, but not a full blown introduction as to me and my situation though, but then niether have a vast majority of people who use the forum. We gain some of that knowledge from the meetings at the Gynway from some of the members who attend there. As we haven't met there, then you are lacking this insight into me.


Janine

[Joanne]

And I'll get in trouble to for reviving another slumbering post.

Having been going out dressed a bit more, visiting the loo has been preying on my mind a little. When around safe areas (the Village or the usual Blackpool haunts) I'm perfectly comfortable using the ladies, but how would I go on if I ventured into other less TV recognised locations, e.g. the Hotel where we are to have the Ren Anniversary meal or a motorway service station?
Being currently, a transvestite and not transsexual like many of you girls, I couldn't legitimately claim to be a woman and use those facilities, but being dressed I couldn't comfortably use the gents either.
What advice would you more experienced girls give a simple TV girl when confronted with that dilemma?

Joanne (legs crossed).

[Lynda Collins]

My advise would be simply

If presenting as female use the female toilets

[Joanne]

My advise would be simply

If presenting as female use the female toilets

As ever Lynda, you are the calming Ying to my raging Yang :)

[sylvia]

I have only ever used the Ladies' when en femme, except accidently,which I described in an early blog. It was of the kind, found in Blackpool, whre complete privacy is afforded. However, I used the Loo at Freeport, and the lady who exited the other cubicle, glanced at me, glared and shot out like a bat out of hell. I was prompted to think that I am not so "passable" as I believed. This has prompted me to work harder on my appearance etc.

I avoid using loos in busy places like supermarkets, especially where the light is bright and unforgiving, and where security guards might intervene. I would love to get to the stage where I can sit listening to the clatter and chatter, knowing that I will shortly be fixing hair and makeup, and "being one of the girls with others!"

[Petra Susan]

I go with Lynda, if your presenting female then you use the female toilets, there is nothing in law that says you cannot, also they cannot prove that you are not actually legally female, but still biologically male. To ask you to prove it would be against the law. That is the problem I've just been arguing with the Youth Hostel Association, with regards to shared dormitories.

Petra Susan