Chrissy64_uk
13-03-2011, 09:10 AM
“It didn’t matter what your genitals were, what mattered was: do you have a beautiful voice and do you look fabulous?”
Genderqueer performer CN Lester, who identifies as neither male nor female, talks to Paris Lees about sexual harassment, operatic androgyny and a mutual fear of going blind.
Paris: You set up the classical music ensemble En Travesti in 2008 with Anne Rebecca Laurent – tell me more?
CN: Rebecca and I both specialised in transgender themes in opera for our masters. She’s just this straight woman, but she loves anything in operatic history that’s to do with undermining gender roles so we got together with Phillip who was plays harpsichord. On the baroque opera stage it didn’t matter what your genitals were, what mattered was: do you have a beautiful voice and do you look fabulous in the costume?
I didn’t realise opera was so gender-bendery…
Classic FM gives you all these passive opera heroines who might lie down and die quite gradually, but the baroque opera heroines just don’t do that. They’re sorceresses and fighters and warriors and queens, and it’s kind of amazing – they kick arse. They might have been played by castrati who was dressed up as a woman, or by women who pretended to be men to get the roles…
Have you been picked up on the classical radar?
Early music doesn’t have the same cache as some grand operas, but this year we’re really focusing on widening our fan base and bringing more instruments in. We actually started as just two voices and a harpsichord, and now we’re doing it with 15 and an early music orchestra. I think next year we’ll maybe start thinking about making a record.
You’re performing at the Trans Media Watch MoU Launch at Channel 4 on Monday. Elaborate.
Well I’m really excited, and so is everyone in the company as we all feel very strongly about how trans history has been suppressed. Rebecca and I started our academic careers writing about it and the more the others get to know me the more they see how the day to day discrimination is so affected by media issues – and they’re fucking furious about it. Being able to participate in something which is so groundbreaking – the fact that people will be signing up to this memorandum – I’m just ecstatic. Obviously, things won’t change overnight, but it’s such a huge step forward. We hope to present a more historical perspective, to say that actually trans issues are not recent phenomena: transgenderism is not some affliction of the modern age, but just a basic human trait. People think classical music is really straight-laced and is just for white, straight, cis people but it never has been, it’s always been full of people that society marginalises and pretends don’t exist, but there we are, centre stage, to spread that message.
Does being trans harm your career?
Classical music, now, is very conservative. I can’t get chorus work because I wouldn’t be willing to wear female clothes or be a member of a women’s chorus. It’s difficult. I’ve actually experienced quite a lot of discrimination finding tutors and applying for courses, being held back by people who were so sure their transphobia was acceptable that they were quite open about it to people I knew. They didn’t see that they were in the wrong – they thought I was wrong for daring to apply. So it was very much “We don’t want people like that associated with us” and they were happy to put it down in writing. The person involved was eventually forced to resign.
What role do the media play?
It’s what we consume everyday – we’re bombarded with it. Whether we like the media or not, whether we chose to engage with it or not, other people are engaging and then their behaviour affects our lives. Women are still treated like second class citizens – add transphobia into that mix and it just explodes. The message that people are getting every day is either that trans people don’t exist, or, if they do exist, that they’re pathetic freaks who we shall laugh at. No wonder they don’t see it as a problem if they discriminate against us, I mean, who would care? If we’re not even afforded the basic decency of having people address us with the right pronouns or correct names, why would they have to be polite enough to offer us equal opportunities at work or in education? You know, you can’t even walk down the street without someone having a problem.
What harassment do you face?
I don’t take hormones, so the majority of people perceive me as a woman, but obviously a woman who is transgressing gender norms. So the street harassment I get tends to be sexual aggression from cis [non-trans] guys, like “Hey baby, how about one up the arse?” or “Suck on this darling.” Or trying to grope you in the street. Then it gets mixed in with the transphobia, when they’re not entirely sure if I’m female or male, that adds to that aggression and it just turns into “f**ing freak” or “faggot”. I think one guy even came out with “You f**king pervert.” I thought wow: you have no idea what I do in bed.
How do you deal with it?
You watch where you go. If you see a group of young guys coming you think: “I’m crossing the street and if they start yelling stuff I’m just going to put my fingers in my ears and think about music.” Feeling unsafe on the street is a big deal, but also I had to stop going to gay bars and gay clubs because I was just so sick of being groped by strangers. It was lots of “I can’t tell if you’re a man or a woman” but before you can say it’s none of your business, they’ve decided to grab your crotch to decide for themselves.
Some of the worst transphobia I’ve experienced has been in gay bars…
I don’t want to sound rude or like I have a problem with lesbians – but I’ve had some really terrible experiences in gay bars from strangers deciding that I’m a traitor to lesbians everywhere. It’s like: 1. I’m bisexual and 2. I’m not a woman… so! And strangers just deciding, especially when they’re drunk, that they can just come and commit acts of sexual assault because they don’t even think you get to the right to sit quietly and have a drink with your friends,
All the more galling when we’re the ones seen as perverts…
I know, especially this whole bathroom issue.
Which toilets do you feel safest in?
The disabled one, unisex. It really depends upon the day: if I’m not wearing any eye make up, the guys, if I go Goth, the ladies. If I use a women’s bathroom I get lots of “cha” and angry looks, but then if use the men’s I’m always quite worried that someone will take it a further than just being rude. I tend to do what a lot of trans people do – I try not to drink too much and I try not to use public toilets.
Carried on in Part two....
Genderqueer performer CN Lester, who identifies as neither male nor female, talks to Paris Lees about sexual harassment, operatic androgyny and a mutual fear of going blind.
Paris: You set up the classical music ensemble En Travesti in 2008 with Anne Rebecca Laurent – tell me more?
CN: Rebecca and I both specialised in transgender themes in opera for our masters. She’s just this straight woman, but she loves anything in operatic history that’s to do with undermining gender roles so we got together with Phillip who was plays harpsichord. On the baroque opera stage it didn’t matter what your genitals were, what mattered was: do you have a beautiful voice and do you look fabulous in the costume?
I didn’t realise opera was so gender-bendery…
Classic FM gives you all these passive opera heroines who might lie down and die quite gradually, but the baroque opera heroines just don’t do that. They’re sorceresses and fighters and warriors and queens, and it’s kind of amazing – they kick arse. They might have been played by castrati who was dressed up as a woman, or by women who pretended to be men to get the roles…
Have you been picked up on the classical radar?
Early music doesn’t have the same cache as some grand operas, but this year we’re really focusing on widening our fan base and bringing more instruments in. We actually started as just two voices and a harpsichord, and now we’re doing it with 15 and an early music orchestra. I think next year we’ll maybe start thinking about making a record.
You’re performing at the Trans Media Watch MoU Launch at Channel 4 on Monday. Elaborate.
Well I’m really excited, and so is everyone in the company as we all feel very strongly about how trans history has been suppressed. Rebecca and I started our academic careers writing about it and the more the others get to know me the more they see how the day to day discrimination is so affected by media issues – and they’re fucking furious about it. Being able to participate in something which is so groundbreaking – the fact that people will be signing up to this memorandum – I’m just ecstatic. Obviously, things won’t change overnight, but it’s such a huge step forward. We hope to present a more historical perspective, to say that actually trans issues are not recent phenomena: transgenderism is not some affliction of the modern age, but just a basic human trait. People think classical music is really straight-laced and is just for white, straight, cis people but it never has been, it’s always been full of people that society marginalises and pretends don’t exist, but there we are, centre stage, to spread that message.
Does being trans harm your career?
Classical music, now, is very conservative. I can’t get chorus work because I wouldn’t be willing to wear female clothes or be a member of a women’s chorus. It’s difficult. I’ve actually experienced quite a lot of discrimination finding tutors and applying for courses, being held back by people who were so sure their transphobia was acceptable that they were quite open about it to people I knew. They didn’t see that they were in the wrong – they thought I was wrong for daring to apply. So it was very much “We don’t want people like that associated with us” and they were happy to put it down in writing. The person involved was eventually forced to resign.
What role do the media play?
It’s what we consume everyday – we’re bombarded with it. Whether we like the media or not, whether we chose to engage with it or not, other people are engaging and then their behaviour affects our lives. Women are still treated like second class citizens – add transphobia into that mix and it just explodes. The message that people are getting every day is either that trans people don’t exist, or, if they do exist, that they’re pathetic freaks who we shall laugh at. No wonder they don’t see it as a problem if they discriminate against us, I mean, who would care? If we’re not even afforded the basic decency of having people address us with the right pronouns or correct names, why would they have to be polite enough to offer us equal opportunities at work or in education? You know, you can’t even walk down the street without someone having a problem.
What harassment do you face?
I don’t take hormones, so the majority of people perceive me as a woman, but obviously a woman who is transgressing gender norms. So the street harassment I get tends to be sexual aggression from cis [non-trans] guys, like “Hey baby, how about one up the arse?” or “Suck on this darling.” Or trying to grope you in the street. Then it gets mixed in with the transphobia, when they’re not entirely sure if I’m female or male, that adds to that aggression and it just turns into “f**ing freak” or “faggot”. I think one guy even came out with “You f**king pervert.” I thought wow: you have no idea what I do in bed.
How do you deal with it?
You watch where you go. If you see a group of young guys coming you think: “I’m crossing the street and if they start yelling stuff I’m just going to put my fingers in my ears and think about music.” Feeling unsafe on the street is a big deal, but also I had to stop going to gay bars and gay clubs because I was just so sick of being groped by strangers. It was lots of “I can’t tell if you’re a man or a woman” but before you can say it’s none of your business, they’ve decided to grab your crotch to decide for themselves.
Some of the worst transphobia I’ve experienced has been in gay bars…
I don’t want to sound rude or like I have a problem with lesbians – but I’ve had some really terrible experiences in gay bars from strangers deciding that I’m a traitor to lesbians everywhere. It’s like: 1. I’m bisexual and 2. I’m not a woman… so! And strangers just deciding, especially when they’re drunk, that they can just come and commit acts of sexual assault because they don’t even think you get to the right to sit quietly and have a drink with your friends,
All the more galling when we’re the ones seen as perverts…
I know, especially this whole bathroom issue.
Which toilets do you feel safest in?
The disabled one, unisex. It really depends upon the day: if I’m not wearing any eye make up, the guys, if I go Goth, the ladies. If I use a women’s bathroom I get lots of “cha” and angry looks, but then if use the men’s I’m always quite worried that someone will take it a further than just being rude. I tend to do what a lot of trans people do – I try not to drink too much and I try not to use public toilets.
Carried on in Part two....